| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dingjr |
Posted - 27/05/2012 : 21:52:47
So, I just measured Tiny, and he's approx 125 grams (measured with analouge scales). Currently nomming his way through a fuzzy mouse every 5 days  just wondering when to move him up to small mice? Or when to move him to rats to prep him for future meals? (unless jumbo mice will be okay for an adult CRB)
I was thinking give him until 150 grams to move him to small mice?
Thanks in advance!  |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Welly |
Posted - 19/07/2012 : 17:19:03
I'm sure he could eat bigger, the picture in my sig was his first big meal. I was actually wuite shocked when he snapped it up!
He is a lazy bugger at the best of times so seeing if i push it out to a longer frequency will encourage him to roam.
Been ages since i have updated any pictures so will do it tonight. He is a lil monster now! |
| Snakesitter |
Posted - 18/07/2012 : 21:32:59
Wow, great discussion. Let me toss my two cents in. I used to live in Michigan, so one of them may even be Canadian -- eh Todd?. ;-)
I feel Todd has an excellent point that boids and colubrids are different, and owners tend to feed all snakes like colubrids. I agree that one larger meal is better than multiple small ones (though I’m not sure I’d push it so far as double their girth -- rainbows in particular are said to be subject to obesity in captivity, so I’m cautious in prey size) and that stretching out meals is a good practice. Incurable had a good point, however, that snakes don’t really analyze what they attack -- if a small mouse wanders in front of my Brazilian, that rodent just become Item #1 on the night’s buffet. (One mouse with very poor judgment proved that the other day, when he decided to stand on Picasso’s head.)
In more specific advice:
quote:
Originally posted by Welly
Lately though i have pushed all my snakes out to a few weeks between meals and up'd the size of prey. None of them are overweight but i do get a better feeding response by pushing the frequency up.
I think you made a good choice, Welly. Expanding on the above, snakes need time to turn those calories into muscle, and if you feed an animal every week it will spend 100% of its time digesting and then eating again. Kind of like people with TVs and potato chips. ;-) I’ve seen wiser keepers than I point out the immense benefits of slowing down feeding frequency and even size. Research on small rodents has proven that lower caloric intake increases longevity, and the zoo that set a longevity record for snakes fed them one (admittedly) large meal…every two months. Other keepers point out that snakes only start “exercising” when they get hungry enough to enter hunting mode. Toward the end of a feeding window, I personally see my hungrier animals out and about more, as opposed to just wallowing in their hides building more fat. It’s healthy for them to get that exercise. And then there are the side benefits, such as a stronger feeding response (less chance of a refusal), more handling time due to the empty belly, and less poop to clean. I see all of this as good.
quote:
Originally posted by Welly
He is a March 2010 currently weighing in at 850g+ he is a good length and has good lines. He has been munching small rat weiners ( upto 40g sometimes two at a time) which he was taking weekly. Now pushed him up to 50g every 2 weeks.
At 850 grams, he should be able to handle small rats – and those typically weigh 65 grams or so. I switch mine over around 500 grams, and offer smaller-sized smalls at first, until their growth allows the regular-sized ones. You might try a smaller small and see if he will take it, and then give him three weeks to digest instead of two. Repeat. If he can do it twice, move him to smalls every other week. |
| rfalla1980 |
Posted - 18/07/2012 : 21:02:42
This is an interesting thread indeed!
I thought I had my feeding schedule and weights all sorted but I've now questioned if I'm possibly underfeeding a little.
My BRB Lolita is approx 750grams, she put on a bit since the rescue, and I feed her a weaner rat every week. She takes them on the button, same time, same day, every week without fail...even if she is in shed. They are smaller than her width by a bit so I'm starting to wonder if I'm underfeeding but too often if you get me?
From her age and size it's sounding like a more but less often feeding schedule should be happening?
Any advice on prey sizes for this weight of snake would be much appreciated.
Rory |
| Blackcat |
Posted - 18/07/2012 : 13:07:05
I have found this thread very interesting - I have no problems regards what and when to feed my corns but know my Rainbows are different and thus need a slightly different feeding regime.
I have so far proceeded with great caution as I don't wish to incur feeding issues such as regurges but do now however think I have probably been over cautious with the size of prey offered.
Thanks for some great opinions from which I can use to make decisions and changes to my feeding |
| CDN_Blood |
Posted - 17/07/2012 : 21:18:33
Exactly what a forum is for - gather opinions and decide what's best for you from there. I didn't make any recommendations, I'm just saying what I do, complete with disclaimers :D |
| Welly |
Posted - 17/07/2012 : 17:55:17
That picture of him was a while back.
I am just interested to see what other opinions are. He is digesting currently so i'll post up some pics of him soon |
| IncurableFlirt |
Posted - 17/07/2012 : 16:54:07
Sorry, Todd, but I just can't agree with that. Snakes are opportunistic feeders and will eat anything that crosses their paths that they think they can take down. Whether it's smaller than them or larger than their bellies...they just don't have the brain power to sit there and think: Ok, if I put all my effort into finding the biggest, baddest rat in town, I'll be set for a month.
Personally, I would never, ever feed any of my snakes, boids, colubrids or pythons more than any of two item at a time. The potential for the extra large meals going bad in their bellies before digestion is just too big for me to ignore. While I know that having heat and everything perfect in their setups keeps this from happening, I just am not willing to take the risk and prefer to feed my guys one prey item that is slightly bigger around than their belly sizes. Since they are kept in captivity, in a relatively small enclosure (compared to a free snake, who has the entire environment to move around in), I think it is far more healthy for the snake to control what it eats, when it eats and provide as much exercise for it as possible.
I'm definitely not putting down the way you take care of your snakes, and it has worked for you for 20+ years, so that is wonderful. However, many of these first time keepers aren't sure what they're doing and they are making as much of an educated guess as they can with the knowledge we provide them. Therefore, I always feel it is safer to err on the side of "less food is better"....at least until they get a grip on care and can do what they feel is best for their snake. ;) |
| CDN_Blood |
Posted - 17/07/2012 : 11:43:04
To be honest, I haven't weighed a snake or an intended meal item in over 20 years, so I really couldn't say what's what regarding size/weight. I just go by eye - I simply won't bother with anything that's not at least double the width of the snake because it's a boid and it's evolved specifically to take in large items and sit for long periods between those large meals.
I don't feed my boids like colubrids (which seems unusually common if you ask me), and I wouldn't feed colubrids like boids.
Consider the image of Samson in your signature block. Usually I totally skip viewing any feeding images (or even threads which contain them) but for the purpose of this thread, that is a good reference. The size of the rodent is good for the snake, but I would personally probably offer 3-4 of those per meal at least (enough to fill that belly - not just a small section of it) and then let him sit on that for a good week, spending the next 2-3 weeks ensuring that it's turning all that intake into muscle rather than fat) and then it'd be ready for another good meal like that the following week, bringing the timeline between feedings to about 4 weeks if the meal was substantial enough.
Don't forget - not everyone feels comfortable wit this method, but also don't forget that these aren't colubrids; they're boids and they're designed to work like that in nature and they wouldn't be wasting time with undersized prey because it's neither efficient nor effective for them to waste energy killing multiple small things to scratch together a meal when they know they can take down one larger item, get 3-4x the energy from it, and only have to 'hunt' every few weeks. They know what they're doing.
That's my opinion. Can you imagine that some people call me long-winded? I mean the nerve of some folks <wanders away from computer still talkin' and talkin' and talkin'...> :D |
| Welly |
Posted - 17/07/2012 : 00:13:38
Interesting read this. Been feeding Samson pretty much every week with breaks every 4 weeks.
He takes a smaller meal than what would normally be suggested.
Lately though i have pushed all my snakes out to a few weeks between meals and up'd the size of prey.
None of them are overweight but i do get a better feeding response by pushing the frequency up.
Todd/Cliff what are your opinions on this? He is a March 2010 currently weighing in at 850g+ he is a good length and has good lines. He has been munching small rat weiners ( upto 40g sometimes two at a time) which he was taking weekly. Now pushed him up to 50g every 2 weeks.
Bigger prey? More time?
I'd be interested to see what you reccommend?
I could feed him upto the 10% weight rule and less frequent but the rats are way too big for him. |
| Dingjr |
Posted - 30/05/2012 : 07:57:16
Aah. Thanks snakesitter! Bet it sucks for the guy with the burmi :O my carpet python is like that though. Really picky and won't touch rats. So I have to feed a number of jumbo mics every feeding day! Anyway, thanks for the advice everyone! :-D |
| Snakesitter |
Posted - 29/05/2012 : 21:10:47
I see my name has been invoked...by three people, no less. No pressure, huh? ;-)
Adam, there are two parts to feeding: size and frequency.
For size, I generally go by the same rule as Incurable: feed your snake an appropriately sized meal once per week, where "appropriate" means as big around as the snake at its fattest part. For an animal of 125 grams, that is almost certainly either an adult mouse or a rat pup. By 150 grams (assuming his girth keeps pace), you can move up to a retired breeder mouse or rat weanling. At this point you should be moving over to rats, because "retired breeder" is the largest size mice come. You do not want to be stuck later on feeding multiple mice when one rat would suffice. Trust me on this: I know someone who had that happen. With a Burmese Python.
For frequency, I feed conservatively, as snakes can easily grow fat in captivity. I feed babies (0-12 months) every week, slowly transition; feed juveniles (18-30 months) every other week, again slowly transition; and feed adults every third week. The exception would be just before and just after breeding season, when I up the females to every other week for a six weeks to give them an extra meal.
Note you can vary these numbers if you know what you are doing. Todd, for example, is a *highly* experienced pro, and he offers bigger meals but less frequently, and adds exercise to boot.
Anyway, I hope these brief notes help. Please let me know if there is anything else I can do for you! |
| CDN_Blood |
Posted - 28/05/2012 : 11:11:54
Here's a visual reference to go with my earlier post. This snake is a late 2010 model and is not yet 2 years old. The sooner you can get them on rats, the better. My recommendation for prey size is double the girth of the snake and see how long that lasts as a meal. Don't forget - if the snake is 2 feet long, almost 1 foot of that is stomach, so small single items like mice are like you having a sandwich; it takes the hunger away, but you really could go for more. Of course, snakes need exercise between meals, so once you switch to larger items (or multiples of smaller items/meal) you do need to make sure it gets up and gets moving once it's digested or it could get over-weight quickly.
While some folks won't agree with my feeding methods and lack of feeding 'schedule' (they're usually the ones with the ultra skinny snakes, lol), I have to say that it may sound intimidating to beginners. Don't forget that snakes are designed specifically to take large prey items and go long periods between meals for a reason and it's totally natural for them to do so :)
At this size she got 1 full grown mouse/meal about every 7-10 days
At this size she got 2-3 full grown mouse/meal about every 2 weeks
At this size she got switched to 1 medium rat/meal about every 5-6 weeks
She's now this size and is still taking 1 medium rat/meal about every 5-6 weeks
 |
| Blackcat |
Posted - 28/05/2012 : 09:25:16
I'm new to Rainbow Boa's and asked about feed sizes recently, link to topic below:
http://www.therainbowboa.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1709
Snakesitter kidly supplied a link to a site with sizes and weights of feed types in this topic which I found useful.
My BRB cb11 weighs approx 41g and is on pinkie rats, my cb12 CRB's at approx 22g are on mice pinkies, all fed at 10 day intervals as recommended by the breeder, but if I'm not happy with weight increase I may reduce the time interval to every 8 days, hope this is of some use to you. |
| IncurableFlirt |
Posted - 28/05/2012 : 02:42:48
I definitely don't want to be a naysayer here, but Marius is nearing his two year old mark and he's still only eating mice. I could switch him over to a rat crawler, but I have heard that mice have a higher calcium content than rats and that you should try to feed them mice for as long as you can. Now, I am definitely not an expert and maybe Snakesitter would have better insight, but I believe you should be feeding the snake according to how big around it's tummy is.....not by their weight. You should feed an appropriate prey according to how big the fattest around part of your snake is. The meal should give the snake a decent sized lump when it eats, but NOT a bulging lump (that would be over-feeding and could cause your snake to become overweight, which could add to health troubles). Marius eats a full adult mouse and it leaves him with a nice sized lump in his belly...and as I said...he is nearing his two year old mark. Maybe he's just a slow growing snake, I dunno. :D What I do know, is that he is healthy and well-adjusted. ;) |
| CDN_Blood |
Posted - 28/05/2012 : 01:21:32
quote:
Originally posted by Dingjr
I'll get him on rats right away then. What size would you recommend bearing in mind he's on fuzzy mice at the moment?
Not quite sure, but Snakesitter is good with weights and such. Mine went from eating 1 mouse per meal to 3 mice per meal and then to medium rats, so I'm probably not the best to gauge that for you, lol.
I wouldn't be surprised if at 125 grams that it could take a full grown mouse already, but again, I haven't weighed a snake in a quarter century, so best to wait for Snakesitter's input :) |
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