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Case Example: Regurgitation

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[quote][i]Originally posted by Snakesitter[/i]
[br]I had the unpleasant experience of a surprise regurgitation about ten days back, and wanted to offer the event up as a (hopefully helpful) lesson for any Brazilian owners who may experience a similar issue in the future.

[i]Overview[/i]
For those unfamiliar, a regurg is when a snake �throws up� its last meal before completely digesting it.  It is an extremely stressful event for the animal: one experienced breeder compared it to a person regurgitating a watermelon.

With Brazilian Rainbows, a regurg is usually caused by one of four possible triggers:
1. Poor environmental parameters, such as high temps or low humidity
2. Improper handling, in other words too soon after a meal
3. An unrelated health issue, such as mites or disease
4. A genetic predisposition, such as suffered by the dominant hypomelanistic line

[i]Case Example[/i]
The snake in question is Prometheus, an eleven-month old Brazilian Rainbow Boa.  As of his most recent month-end exam, he weighed in at 174 grams.  The month before that, he weighed 142 grams, and the month before that, 118 grams.  He has never had any prior health issues.

Prometheus has always been a good eater.  As with all my young Brazilians, he is offered a weekly frozen/thawed rodent appropriate to his size.  Up until August, it was a rat fuzzie; in August, he was upgraded to a rat pup, in line with his current growth.   This particular Tuesday was his third pup meal.  All three meals were taken with enthusiasm and no sign of distress afterward.

On Tuesday, August 17, in the late evening, Prometheus was fed a rat pup.

He was not disturbed for the next three (almost four) days.

On Saturday, August 21, in the mid-afternoon, Prometheus was handled.  I removed him from his hide and took him into my room, where I placed him on the bed to exercise and explore while I read a book.  His behavior was completely normal.  After about ten minutes, I returned him to his cage, which was spot-cleaned and misted to boost humidity.  As of my last sweep before I left for dinner with friends, all was fine.

On Sunday, August 22, in the mid-afternoon, I was cleaning the adult cages and noticed a little pink pile by his hide door.  It was the bottom half of a pup.  His water dish was also soiled, with an absolutely immense poop floating in it.  I immediately cleaned and changed the water, removed the carcass, and checked him.  His behavior was normal.  After misting, I returned him to his cage.

Later that afternoon, I saw him out and exploring (unusual for a baby at this time of day � they usually only do that when they�re hungry).  I double-checked temps; they were normal at 75-78 degrees; he himself clocked in at 76.5 degrees.

On Monday, August 23, in the early morning, he was again up and exploring.

Later that night, he was in his mini-hide near the front of the cage, and acted very alert and curious when I peeked in on him.

[i]Analysis[/i]
This one is a puzzler.  Looking back at the list of reasons�.

For the first trigger, his environmental factors are fine.  Temps are normal (both by my measure and the computer�s), humidity is good (there is condensation on the inside lid of his hide, always a good sign).  As a confirmation, all 20 other Brazilians in the room are fine.

For the second, most people wait 48 hours to handle after a meal.  I usually wait 72, and have handled Prometheus fine at that mark on other occasions.  This time I waited about 90 hours.

For the third, I�ve acquired no new animals since early June � and both of those snakes are under strict quarantine, and both seem healthy anyway.  I have not acquired any supplies that would be a possible source of contamination, either, such as moss.

For the fourth, Prometheus is a normal.  He has no hypo blood whatsoever.

In the end, looking at the huge poop, I wonder if maybe the little guy�s digestive system was just backed up from the switch to larger meals.  If he hadn�t cleared the last meal, maybe he just couldn�t handle the current one, and with the stress of a long handling session on top of that, it was just too much for him.  At least, because he looks and acts fine, that�s the best guess I can come up with.

[i]Treatment[/i]
The first task following any regurg is to fix the cause: temp, humidity, handling practice, etc.  In this case, there does not seem to be a specific trigger to fix.  I nevertheless re-checked everything just to be sure.

The second task is to rebuild the snake�s digestive system.  Regurgitation is tough on any snake�s system, but especially a baby�s.  The snake needs time to allow its gut bacteria to regrow.  So, it is best to delay the next feeding by a few weeks, even if the snake seems hungry and ready to feed (contrary to popular keeper perception, this will not hurt your pet: snakes are capable of going weeks without food without suffering any ill effects).  In addition, the next few meals should be smaller than normal.  If you rush the process, either in timing or volume, you risk a repeat regurg because the snake�s recovering digestive system cannot handle the sudden load.

Therefore, I will skip this week�s regular feeding and the next week�s as well, resuming the following week (so, after a 16-day break).  That meal will not only be delayed, but one step down in size from what he usually takes.  If that feeding goes well, I will wait another two weeks before feeding again, and again go with the smaller meal.  If that goes well too, I will move him back to weekly, probably starting with a fuzzy and then alternating those with pups for a month before moving him back to pups fulltime.

I hope this summary proves helpful to someone.  If you have any questions or feedback, please let me know!
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T O P I C R E V I E W
Snakesitter	Posted - 01/09/2010 : 21:20:25 I had the unpleasant experience of a surprise regurgitation about ten days back, and wanted to offer the event up as a (hopefully helpful) lesson for any Brazilian owners who may experience a similar issue in the future. Overview For those unfamiliar, a regurg is when a snake �throws up� its last meal before completely digesting it. It is an extremely stressful event for the animal: one experienced breeder compared it to a person regurgitating a watermelon. With Brazilian Rainbows, a regurg is usually caused by one of four possible triggers: 1. Poor environmental parameters, such as high temps or low humidity 2. Improper handling, in other words too soon after a meal 3. An unrelated health issue, such as mites or disease 4. A genetic predisposition, such as suffered by the dominant hypomelanistic line Case Example The snake in question is Prometheus, an eleven-month old Brazilian Rainbow Boa. As of his most recent month-end exam, he weighed in at 174 grams. The month before that, he weighed 142 grams, and the month before that, 118 grams. He has never had any prior health issues. Prometheus has always been a good eater. As with all my young Brazilians, he is offered a weekly frozen/thawed rodent appropriate to his size. Up until August, it was a rat fuzzie; in August, he was upgraded to a rat pup, in line with his current growth. This particular Tuesday was his third pup meal. All three meals were taken with enthusiasm and no sign of distress afterward. On Tuesday, August 17, in the late evening, Prometheus was fed a rat pup. He was not disturbed for the next three (almost four) days. On Saturday, August 21, in the mid-afternoon, Prometheus was handled. I removed him from his hide and took him into my room, where I placed him on the bed to exercise and explore while I read a book. His behavior was completely normal. After about ten minutes, I returned him to his cage, which was spot-cleaned and misted to boost humidity. As of my last sweep before I left for dinner with friends, all was fine. On Sunday, August 22, in the mid-afternoon, I was cleaning the adult cages and noticed a little pink pile by his hide door. It was the bottom half of a pup. His water dish was also soiled, with an absolutely immense poop floating in it. I immediately cleaned and changed the water, removed the carcass, and checked him. His behavior was normal. After misting, I returned him to his cage. Later that afternoon, I saw him out and exploring (unusual for a baby at this time of day � they usually only do that when they�re hungry). I double-checked temps; they were normal at 75-78 degrees; he himself clocked in at 76.5 degrees. On Monday, August 23, in the early morning, he was again up and exploring. Later that night, he was in his mini-hide near the front of the cage, and acted very alert and curious when I peeked in on him. Analysis This one is a puzzler. Looking back at the list of reasons�. For the first trigger, his environmental factors are fine. Temps are normal (both by my measure and the computer�s), humidity is good (there is condensation on the inside lid of his hide, always a good sign). As a confirmation, all 20 other Brazilians in the room are fine. For the second, most people wait 48 hours to handle after a meal. I usually wait 72, and have handled Prometheus fine at that mark on other occasions. This time I waited about 90 hours. For the third, I�ve acquired no new animals since early June � and both of those snakes are under strict quarantine, and both seem healthy anyway. I have not acquired any supplies that would be a possible source of contamination, either, such as moss. For the fourth, Prometheus is a normal. He has no hypo blood whatsoever. In the end, looking at the huge poop, I wonder if maybe the little guy�s digestive system was just backed up from the switch to larger meals. If he hadn�t cleared the last meal, maybe he just couldn�t handle the current one, and with the stress of a long handling session on top of that, it was just too much for him. At least, because he looks and acts fine, that�s the best guess I can come up with. Treatment The first task following any regurg is to fix the cause: temp, humidity, handling practice, etc. In this case, there does not seem to be a specific trigger to fix. I nevertheless re-checked everything just to be sure. The second task is to rebuild the snake�s digestive system. Regurgitation is tough on any snake�s system, but especially a baby�s. The snake needs time to allow its gut bacteria to regrow. So, it is best to delay the next feeding by a few weeks, even if the snake seems hungry and ready to feed (contrary to popular keeper perception, this will not hurt your pet: snakes are capable of going weeks without food without suffering any ill effects). In addition, the next few meals should be smaller than normal. If you rush the process, either in timing or volume, you risk a repeat regurg because the snake�s recovering digestive system cannot handle the sudden load. Therefore, I will skip this week�s regular feeding and the next week�s as well, resuming the following week (so, after a 16-day break). That meal will not only be delayed, but one step down in size from what he usually takes. If that feeding goes well, I will wait another two weeks before feeding again, and again go with the smaller meal. If that goes well too, I will move him back to weekly, probably starting with a fuzzy and then alternating those with pups for a month before moving him back to pups fulltime. I hope this summary proves helpful to someone. If you have any questions or feedback, please let me know!
15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
hiper2009	Posted - 16/10/2010 : 13:38:23 I also think this thread should become a sticky too its packed with info that is usful as well as helping others.
Snakesitter	Posted - 15/10/2010 : 22:20:35 You are correct -- just double whatever her normal meal lag time is, and give her plenty of stress-free R&R in the meantime! She'll do fine, she's got a smart Dad with you!
sullysteve	Posted - 15/10/2010 : 20:28:43 I suppose i just got to leave her for 2 or 3 weeks while her insides build back up, then she will be foghting 100% fit!!!
Snakesitter	Posted - 15/10/2010 : 20:08:21 Snakes produce two types, white and brown. Both are normal. Soft is better than hard. Trust me when I tell you that low-scent is better than not, lol. ;-) Any time, Brazilians are worth it.
sullysteve	Posted - 15/10/2010 : 07:35:54 This is going to sound disgusting, but the poop was more White than black and had a paste consistency with no smell. I haven't seen that many poops from her to compare what is normal. I just know it was all soft almost like a blob of oil paint. I have only had to feed her twice since having her. Her records show a feed every 9 - 14 days. I'm slowly gonna change to weekly once I have helped her to recover from the regurgitate experience. Cliff, you really are a inspiration to the BRB keepers society. I really appreciate the way you are helping me on this. TO ALL ADMIN/MODS......I PERSONALLY THINK THIS TOPIC SHOULD BECOME A STICKY. Let us know your thoughts.
Snakesitter	Posted - 15/10/2010 : 00:18:48 The skin can get "crispy" the day before they shed, and is usually a sign the skin change is imminent. Your water and humidity sound fine. Can't hurt to mist her cage an extra time each day til she sheds, though. Some snakes poop every meal, others every second. I have one who waited almost three meals and a month (he was in shed at the end, though). Did the poop look normal? If so, it's a good sign, it means her system is working. Is your usual delay between feedings 14 days (09/27 then 10/10), or was that unusually long?
sullysteve	Posted - 14/10/2010 : 23:35:32 Ok.... No shed as yet, but the scales that I mentioned before, have now gone normal, however, her skin is very dry and chrispy and looks very saggy. There is lots of fresh water available and I have been keeping the humidity to 87% Also, she done a big poop, which tells me that when I fed her last, she hadn't got rid of the last and that may have caused the regurge. Am I right?
Snakesitter	Posted - 14/10/2010 : 22:26:59 OK, sounds good. As the skin symptoms sound visual only, I'll hope they are related to the shed, which we'll be able to better judge after she sheds. (Note: when she does shed, keep the skin, just in case, as it may have clues.) That leaves just the regurg. Was she handled or exposed to odd conditions too soon after eating, by any chance? In the meantime, keep an eye on the cage parameters, follow the points laid out in the guide, and I will watch for your post.
sullysteve	Posted - 14/10/2010 : 06:54:30 Cheers cliff. I'll charge up my better camera and get some pics asap. As for her nose, it's just looks wet but feels dry . She is due a shed anytime now. Infact, when I said earlier that I thought she was in shed because of her eyes, I was prob right. She my have gone to the clear stage and be due to rip it off soon. Last feed was sun 10th. Then before that was 27th sept. 1x large fuzzy mouse each time. I'll give you an update asap Cheers Sully
Snakesitter	Posted - 14/10/2010 : 00:44:56 Get someone to hold her if it helps, while you snap the picture. It's impossible to say without a real look, however well-intentioned the verbal description. When was her last shed? Is she due or just entering? If so, that might explain it. Wet nose by only look, or actual touch/fact? If actual (if not disregard), can you hear anything odd when she breathes? Listen very closely for a clicking or wheezing noise. Also, see if there is mucuous or bubbling around her nose. These are unlikely from your description, I'm just trying to be thorough. So long as she has a cool end to retreat to, I'd leave the warm end where it was (assuming 82D or less). That allows her to move where she needs to be to feel better. Again, a recent care history (along with the photo) would be helpful. Fingers crossed,
sullysteve	Posted - 13/10/2010 : 23:34:22 i did try earlier, but she was too active. If i try and explain a little more. .. Her skin is very slightly saggy around her neck. Approx 5 or 6 scales from her middle to her neck look like they are purtruding out and have changed color. Almos the color of wet aspen. Her nose seems to have gone like a grey color and looks wet almos like a dogs nose. However, she doesent seem stressed at all. Infact, i have questioned (on here) a few times about how aggressive she has been. Biting all the time, but she hasnt gone to bite/strike at all since i found the regurge. completely active..... i am so confused. I did check the temp....i have turned it down to 75F. The regurge was in the cool end, which makes me think that she was in the cool end cos the warm end was too hot for her. When i found the regurge, she was tucked away in the warm end next to a very small poop. hope this helps a little more
Snakesitter	Posted - 13/10/2010 : 23:24:17 Would you be able to get a picture, if you can do so with minimal stress? It's hard to say otherwise.
sullysteve	Posted - 13/10/2010 : 23:17:22 thanks, Is the saggy skin anything to worry about? Also, the scales that a sticking out?
Snakesitter	Posted - 13/10/2010 : 21:23:39 Sully, in that case you have now experienced a real regurg. It's serious, but manageable -- I just pulled through a case myself. Please read the initial post in this thread, which describes what to do in detail. After you've read it and compared to your setup, please feel free to report anything unusual, or ask any followup questions you might have, and I will try to help. BTW, a feeding/shed/poop/handling history for the last two weeks would be useful as well.
hiper2009	Posted - 13/10/2010 : 20:58:50 quote: Originally posted by sullysteve OMG!!!! I think I have a problem! Just got home to find the fuzzy I fed her on Sunday , HALF DIGESTED in the faun!!! It really stinks too! I have cleaned it out fully and put her back in. I haven't handled her since Sunday cos I thought she had gone to shed as her nose has gone like a grey/black Color and her eyes seem to be cloudy! I have soaked her in warm water just to get rid of any germs that may have formed on the regurge. Her skin has gone a little saggy and she has the odd scale that looks to be like a yellow Color and sticks out slightly. Other than that she seems to have a good grip and was active whilst I had her out to bath her. Her humidity has been set perfect at an average of 86% and temp in warm end has been at 78-82f Help please. ! Sully Sorry can't help you with this but Cliff will be here soon to help you with the problems..

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