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WendyBall
Snake mite
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
 Posted - 13/05/2011 : 21:34:27
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So, now 'Rocky Van Boa' is all set up nicely in his RUB, my thoughts are now turning to our next project - adult size viv.
As the required humidity level is high, I have read about wooden vivs warping - about how long would this happen over? Because I am trying to figure out if it would be cheaper in the long run to line the viv with something, or to replace the viv when needed, or to go with an Exo Terra Glass Terrarium.
Been thinking about different things that could possibly be used to line a viv, lino, vinyl covering (like that you would use for covering kitchen cupboards) or perspex plastic .......... have any of these (apart from the latter which I have found in the DIY section!) been tried and tested ?
Thank you in advance!  |
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Welly
Hatchling
United Kingdom
164 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2011 : 22:41:12
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| I poly carb'd mine. There are pictures on here somewhere. I found it the most cost effective and simple way to do it |
0.1.0 Royal Python
0.0.1 Mexican Black King
1.0.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
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Snakesitter
Rainbow Master
USA
2718 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2011 : 23:58:02
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| I'd actually advise against a glass tank. They do not insulate well, and most come with screen tops. The best cages for rainbow bboas are frankly the new plastic ones, unless you want to make one yourself as Welly did (and amazingly well!). Smart of you to think of sealing it beforehand. |
Cliff Earle
Living Gems Reptiles
Premium Brazilian Rainbow Boas from a disease-tested facility
Website, Facebook |
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JKCarter
New Member
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2011 : 00:18:49
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I've actually thought about this and have come up with an idea that I wanted to toss out there and see what others think.
Anyone familiar with RhinoLiner or the other similar brands of spray in truck liners? They make and sell a smooth version of the spray in liner which I think would be better so as to not be too rough for the snake. These liners are very well water resistant and are even potable, meaning they are safe to contain drinking water which would lead me to believe that they would be completely toxic free (when dried of course).
So pretty much what I'm suggesting is to either buy a wooden viv or do a DIY wooden viv. I would still run a bead of silicone in the seams to be extra safe, but then spray the inside of it with a spray in truck liner.
Any ideas on how this would hold up or does anyone see any potential issues with something like this? |
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boas (Vinni & Scarlet)
1.0 Yellow Niger Uromastyx (Taji)
0.1 Crested Gecko (Unnamed)
0.0.1 Ball Python (Val)
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ptmbradley
Hatchling
United Kingdom
105 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2011 : 04:00:00
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There is a thread here somewhere that talks about using 'fablon', which is sticky backed plastic, and lining the viv with it. I am currently thinking that'll be the route I go down, but it's still a way off yet...  |
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WendyBall
Snake mite
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2011 : 09:16:16
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http://www.plasti-kote.co.uk
Nice thinking JK Carter, plasti-kote ...... I have just emailed the company above to ask some questions about this product, I'll let you know what response I get.
Thanks Cliff, I see that different people on here have their own opinions of the use of glass, makes it a little confusing. We were looking to the largest Exo Terra Terrarium which measures 90 x 45 x 60 cm , did not think that really would be large enough for an adult, so was also looking at a Vivexotic EX55 Vivarium which measures 139.4 x 58.0 x 69.0 cm.
Lots of ideas to think about! |
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flaboye
Hatchling
USA
178 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2011 : 11:56:17
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Re: glass
As Cliff points out, with a screen top you must watch the humidity level and ambient temps more than you would have to with a plastic type of enclosure. I have my rainbow in a glass 75 gallon. However, I work with rainbows daily and understand their safe ranges. I jave to pay attention to ambient temps and humidity (as glass doesn't insulate well). In the states we have dollar general's. You can go there and pick up a 6.00 sterilite tub with a locking lid and the snake will thrive in it. If you don't have the money for fancy enclosures, the snake will be fine in something much less fancy. I am in no way recommending an aquarium as an enclosure, just pointing out if it's what you have, you can work with it, that's all.
Rainbows generally hide during the day anyway, if you spend money on a display you may be sorely disappointed unless you stay up at night to watch the snake become active. BCI's and other species are less likely to hide during daytime hours. We spend a lot of money for "looks", but trust me the snake doesn't require it. Ask any breeder. They have pairs who have lived for years and years and are healthy and thriving in a simple pull out plastic enclosure. No plants. No climbing driftwood. No fancy water bowls, misting machines, electronic digital temp/humidity, etc. Just a simple enclosure, that's it. Yes, it's definitely more eye pleasing to have all the extras, and yes, if there is driftwood or something siilar the snake will explore it, but if you don't have the resources for all of this, the snake won't suffer for lack of it.
I'm saying this for the benefit of anyone who is wondering how they will be able to afford all the fancy enclosures that are always being recommended. Or for those who aren't skilled in the building of their own enclosures. If you can scrape up a few dollars, you can raise a healthy and happy rainbow or other species just fine. You could then plan, if it's what you want, for something nicer to the eye down the road a ways.
For example, if you already have aquariums you can make them work fine but you do need to be aware of ambient room temperature and pay some attention to your humidity. You don't have to spend hundreds of dollars on behalf of the snake, you are doing that on behalf of you. Rainbow's are a much hardier species than some folks would have you believe.
If you are on a budget, sterilite enclosures work just dandy, for anything from a hatchling, to an adult.
A snake needs just a few things. To be within a safe temperature range. To be within a safe humidity range. To be fed, and to have fresh water available, proper substrate for the species, and to have the enclosure kept clean. That's it. Anything above that is for the human's eye appeal, or the human keepers preferences. In the wild anything coming close to a snake's head is either a danger and needs to be bit, or food and needs to be eaten.
I handle my bci and rainbow almost daily, except after feeds of course, and work with thousands of snakes on a daily basis. By doing this regularly since they were very young, they are tolerant of it, and allow it. I enjoy it, and interpret the snake's to also. Bottom line is they are probably just tolerating it, but it works for me :)
Don't get me wrong, I think the display enclosures are very nice. Bottom line is this is all a snake needs to be healthy, happy, and probably outlive some of us:
http://www.sterilite.com/SelectProduct.html?id=586&ProductCategory=179§ion=1
I know that's not what some want to hear, but ask any breeder, that's all you need. Of course you need to put air holes in this, but for $6.00 that's all you need. You are not being inhumane using an enclosure such as this. If you keep to the basics the snake has a much safer and healthier life than it would in the wild.
So for anyone wondering how they'd ever afford a boaphile or any other display setup, or build something, you can, for now, get by with what you have or can easily obtain for a few dollars. Your snake will be fine, if you take care of the basics listed above.
Don't be afraid to get into the hobby just because your budget or resources don't currently allow for several hundred dollars in housing costs. That's all I'm trying to convey.
Joe |
0.1.0 Brazilian Rainbow
1.0.0 Hypo BCI
1.0.0 Columbian RedTail
1.0.0 Great Pyrenees
0.0.1 Armadillo under house |
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flaboye
Hatchling
USA
178 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2011 : 12:17:28
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Just to add something to the above.
I am NOT recommending anything. I just wanted to let anyone know who has been wanting to get a snake, that it's ok if you can't start out with an expensive enclosure, that's all. Obviously you snake will outgrow a 28 qt sterilite (used as an example above with the url given, to get someone started). My point was you can realize your dream of snake ownership and work towards the display aspects as time goes by. My rainbow has a large hide, driftwood, and a very large water bowl/pool in her 75 gallon. But, she would be fine in the sterilite if it's all I could get together.
I just hate to think anyone is turned away or scared off at the thought of having to spend a few hundred dollars just to "get started". It's simply not the case. Or, for them to feel guilty because of it.
That's all I am trying to get across.
Joe
Cheers!
Joe |
0.1.0 Brazilian Rainbow
1.0.0 Hypo BCI
1.0.0 Columbian RedTail
1.0.0 Great Pyrenees
0.0.1 Armadillo under house |
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WendyBall
Snake mite
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2011 : 12:35:13
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| Thank you Joe for the time you have taken in your response, some very valid points in there too! |
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JKCarter
New Member
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2011 : 14:57:30
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Shoot yeah Joe. Too many times I've seen someone on a forum ask about caging and they always get the same response, "BoaPhile, APPlastics or BoaMaster caging". Look at the prices of some of these and it'll make you cringe. I agree with you %100 that a snake can not only live, but thrive, in a sterilite tub or rubbermade container. As you said, the rest of it isn't as much for the snake as it is for the owner.
I myself am waiting for X-mas to come around and I plan on buying at least 5 of the VE-175W Christmas tree storage containers. http://www.irisusainc.com/p-680-ve-175w.aspx
These are the largest tubs available on the market and are very sturdy. ReptileTubs.com sells them year round for $44.00 - $49.00 + shipping, but I'm just gonna wait until X-mas time and my local Wal-Mart has em in stock for for around $22.00. |
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boas (Vinni & Scarlet)
1.0 Yellow Niger Uromastyx (Taji)
0.1 Crested Gecko (Unnamed)
0.0.1 Ball Python (Val)
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flaboye
Hatchling
USA
178 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2011 : 17:28:32
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Thanks Wendy and JC. I am sure there are many put off by the warnings about care for the rainbows, and this and that. Really, they're a very hardy species. The temps in their natural habitats drop at night lower than you might think. Point is they're not a premie infant in neonatal intensive care, lol :), although you'd think so listening to some folks. With that and the hoopla about "how hard" they are to keep. They're really very easy to keep and can be very tame if you spend time with them. Even some of the adults which never had much attention paid to them over the years, have come around and like to go out of their enclosures now. Didn't take much, just a little bit of time with each of them.
Bottom line is you could buy a sterilite or one of the tubs you showed (JC), (very nice looking, go WalMart huh?) and slide it under your bed. Snake will be as happy as they would be in a 600 display cage. In fact a rainbow might appreciate it more as they like to hide anyway. Just keep the basics up and interact with him/her some, and she'd live happily ever after under your bed in a tub. That was what I was trying to say I guess :) Not that my snakes live under my bed, haha, but really, they don't "need" anything fancy whatsoever.
Cheers!
PS @ JK: You say walmart carries these around christmas? My BCI currently lives in that sterilite under the 75 tank of the rainbow. He will outgrow it in about a year probably, so I will either find another aquarium that will fit on the stand supports under the 75 or get him a larger tub, such as the one you showed. Is this a "seasonal" thing, kind of like those cool tool kits that show up around Christmas with everything you need in them in a little carrying case?
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0.1.0 Brazilian Rainbow
1.0.0 Hypo BCI
1.0.0 Columbian RedTail
1.0.0 Great Pyrenees
0.0.1 Armadillo under house |
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JKCarter
New Member
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2011 : 18:50:59
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Yes it is a seasonal only type item. I believe reptiletubs.com simply stocks up on em while they're available so as to offer them year round. I have emailed IrisUsaInc, the company that produces them, and they have said that they are only available during the X-mas season.
I'm waiting patiently for the season to come around and I plan on picking up at least 5 of em. |
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boas (Vinni & Scarlet)
1.0 Yellow Niger Uromastyx (Taji)
0.1 Crested Gecko (Unnamed)
0.0.1 Ball Python (Val)
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WendyBall
Snake mite
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - 16/05/2011 : 10:26:23
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Had a reply back from the plasti kote company saying that none of there products were suitable  |
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ptmbradley
Hatchling
United Kingdom
105 Posts |
Posted - 16/05/2011 : 11:32:49
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Just read this on another forum about waterproofing...
"B&Q own brand water based floor varnish (use the satin finish one) is the perfect stuff. It dries fairly quickly and has low fumes, so it won't need airing as long as traditional varnish. I've used it on all my home built wooden vivs and never had any problems." This is from a knowledgeable breeder who is also an active member on the corn snake forum.
Also read that melamine vivs are already waterproof and just need sealant around the joins. Think the viv exotic range are melamine... |
Boas: 0.1 Arabesque, 1.0 Brazilian Rainbow, 0.1 Crawl Cay, 1.1 Hogg Island X, 0.1 Hypo Hogg, 0.1 Kahl Albino (poss coral)
Corns: 1.1 Anery, 1.1 Butter, 1.0 Carolina, 0.1 Hypo, 1.1 Snow, 1.0 Sunkissed
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Welly
Hatchling
United Kingdom
164 Posts |
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Snakesitter
Rainbow Master
USA
2718 Posts |
Posted - 16/05/2011 : 20:11:25
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There is some great advice above, particularly on rainbows being hardier than most realize (so long as their environmental needs are met, these things are almost bulletprooof), and not needing a formal set-up just to get started.
However, on one point I’m going to strongly disagree.
And that area is long-term tub-ing. Joe, please note this is *not* targeted at you in any way, I just think the opposite side of the care case needs to be made.
My argument is not based on practicality –- I admit tubs can be very “practical” -- but on what I see as better for our industry long-term. I have always felt that the practice of keeping snakes in tubs their entire lives does enormous damage to our industry's ability to position these animals as pets. It's hard to make a case for an animal being “part of the family” when you shut it in a small enclosure and slide it into a drawer every night. Heck, even the goldfish gets more respect than that. ;-)
On top of that, I really do believe that adult snakes deserve a full viv of their own -- not necessarily a pricy/ornate display tank, but something larger and more permanent than a tub. These are pets, not clothes. Need to tub to start? Perfectly acceptable. But please, move up sometime before the animal matures. It deserves that respect and sense of permanence.
A final, and totally unanticipated, issue with tubs is that I feel they fuel the hoarder side of our hobby -- the practice where someone starts keeping dozens then hundreds of animals they do not really have the capability to properly care for, all enabled by the ability to keep them in small stackable enclosures. There is a limit to the number of animals any one person can support in the high-quality fashion we all aspire to with our rainbows. (Please note that I’m not referring to the professional shops that employ full-time staff, like Joe noted above, where their animals are inspected and handled daily, exactly as they should be.)
Anyway, I’m not trying to be an old grouch or start a flame war, but tubs are not the ultimate solution that many keepers feel them to be. Every convenience has a downside, and tubs carry several serious ones.
Apologies for any offense. |
Cliff Earle
Living Gems Reptiles
Premium Brazilian Rainbow Boas from a disease-tested facility
Website, Facebook |
Edited by - Snakesitter on 16/05/2011 20:12:48 |
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Waterproofing Vivs
